Thanks for the sneak peak, and looking forward to your upcoming article! Shilen Select Match 6mm Dasher Build. A 6BR barrel should give 2,200-3,000 rounds of accurate life, and a .308 Win barrel could remain competitive for 4,000 rounds or more. I can say with a lot of confidence that most of these guys are using either the fastest twist possible for the caliber they’re shooting, or close to it. If you’re wanting to know what the best spotting scope is, I’m sure most would argue that it’d have to be Swarovski. reported average muzzle velocities from But it doesn’t mean those other cartridges aren’t effective … just means they aren’t as popular. Cal: Ha! I have been using a Leupold Mark 4 spotting scope with the TMR reticle for the past couple years, and it’s great for the money but it’s definitely not as crisp as the Swaro. There was one guy running Hodgdon H4895 and one running Reloder 16, which could be good alternatives if you can’t find Varget – but Varget is definitely the clear favorite to fuel the 6 Dasher. Caliber: 6 Dasher (6mmBR Improved) Barrel: Broughton 5C, 1:8 twist, stainless, 30" finished length, contour 1.250" straight cylinder: Reamer: Dave Kiff of Pacific Tool and Gauge – 6 Dasher, 0.272 neck, 0.110 freebore Receiver: Remington M700 right hand stainless short action. of the Dasher was the reason they switched over to. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this content, data, or other materials is strictly prohibited without prior express and written permission from the author. I haven’t ever asked these guys about spotting scopes or done any independent tests myself. P.S.–How does the 6mm Creedmoor stack up against the 240? My only advice beyond that would be to get one with a reticle. Can’t wait! There are affordable factory ammo options that are really capable for the Creedmoors. Was wondering what is barrel life on 6 mm Dasher 3000 rouds? Interesting first look at the percentages, and your friend’s experience. 11-25 in the PRS, and the lighter the blue, the further out they finished in He has to replace barrels about 1500 rounds. When using ATC with a 10 shot group what would be an acce... Shootin’ Okie: Thanks, for replying. It also hits on some formulas you can use to determine what twist rate is optimal for a particular bullet. I appreciate you chiming in! The breakdown on powder charge weight is really great data to find a starting point. Hey, Gordon. I’m about to stretch my rifle’s legs and I don’t have one. I honestly haven’t looked at that data yet, but since you asked I ran a quick query and it looks like 69% of them are exclusively using single stage presses. I can tell you’re a guy that really likes to test out components until you’re certain you’ve got the absolute best combination, so I really do appreciate your willingness to share your results. Concentricity measures at .001" or better; bullets are seated about .015" from the lands. Good to hear from you. He has a GREAT study in there that really helps you understand the tradeoffs, and what is optimal for different applications. That’s just over 95%! consistent muzzle velocity becomes critical when you’re trying to hit tiny When they’re really on (which is often), I’d literally pay money to watch that show. For the last several years I asked the top shooters questions about their load, like what bullet, primer, brass, and powder they used, but this year I asked about the specific powder charge weight they were loading. Dan's work was perfect. That chart is really the meat of these articles, and why I wanted to go through this for each of the popular cartridges. I didn’t even think about that until you asked about it. Donnie that is EXACTLY what I run! Amir, I’m not sure … but I bet someone reading these comments probably has an idea. The 6BR Improved cases represent a “sweet spot” for the tactical game, offering outstanding accuracy, with less recoil than bigger cartridges, including the … What’s really interesting is that most of the people running I really look forward to these emails and the information keeps getting better and better, keep up the good work! 6 Dasher is in the same category of ballistic performance compared to 6mm Creedmoor, but with less recoil and much better barrel life. I’ll share more details in the upcoming post, but hope that at least gives you an idea in the meantime. These others simply allow you to “cheat the wind” more, meaning that if you’re wind call was 11 mph from 4:00 and it was really blowing 12 mph from 3:30 – you’ll still be on the steel plate at 800 yards. It feels like new insight that we can learn from this very unique data set. I’m sure I’ll be one of the guys that references it the most! I do have a good friend that uses a Dillon progressive press, and he’s invested a lot of money into it with floating toolheads and it’s actually even automated with a Android tablet controller and a bunch of others stuff … and I think his ammo is higher quality than what I meticulously make on my single stage press. Thanks, That’s where 6 Dasher comes in. Caliber: 6mm Dasher (6mmBR Improved) Barrel: Broughton 5C, 1:8 twist, stainless, 31" finished length, contour 1.250" straight cylinder: Reamer: Dave Kiff of Pacific Tool and Gauge – 6 Dasher, 0.272 neck, 0.110 freebore Action: BAT Model B, right bolt, right port, 1.355" round An absolute gaggle of folks in PRS/NRL started shooting 6mm BR cartridges the last two seasons, largely motivated by ease of tuning (any Varget, 4895, or 8208 load will likely shoot well), better barrel life, and lower powder consumption. I am curious to peoples opinions on that. thanks for gathering this and reporting on it. There isn’t a “right” or “wrong” … just depends on your priorities and what money is worth to you. View Profile View Forum Posts … 6mm Dasher Information Note: If you are looking for someone to chamber your rifle or re-barrel an existing rifle in the 6mm Dasher cartridge, Fred at Sabreco, Inc. in Skippack, PA (610) 584-8228 can help you with this. WELL WHEN I WAS LOOKING, READING FORUMS, AND TALKING TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE, WHAT EVER THEY WERE SHOOTING SEEMED TO BE THE GUN TO BUILD. I know I couldn’t tell you what the twist was on all my match rifles without having to look it up. that configuration reported a miniscule standard deviation in muzzle velocity I have a (tangentially) related question. Thanks, DB. Good to hear that others are enjoying the journey, even from a completely different vantage point! Thanks, David. Efficient!!!! These guys are looking for any advantage they can get at this level of competition, and if any of them thought the Lapua Scenar would help them … they’d be running it. Brass manufacturers are aware of the case cosmetics and have worked to mitigate it, but due to equipment design, denting may still occur. SHOT Show 2020: Leica PRS 5-30×56 with PRB Reticle! I’m really excited about the next few articles! Stay tuned! July 10, 2014 at 3:20 pm #1638. Barrel twist just didn’t make the cut, unfortunately. Hey, Steve. Vote For The Best 6.5 Creedmoor Match Ammo, Bullet Jump Research: Executive Summary & Load Development Tips. The chart Lapua doesn’t make brass specifically for the Dasher, but most start with Lapua’s 6mm Norma BR case and fireform it for the Dasher (What is fireform?). 6mm Creedmoor can certainly attain higher velocities, but for some situations recoil is a much more important consideration (like shooting off a barricade). I don’t have a lot of experience with the 240 Weatherby or 264 Win Mag, so I’d be guessing at how they compare. of these shooters prefer it, but the data clearly shows they do. It sported a Shehane Baby Tracker stock, and a Hart 8-twist Rem Varmint contour barrel chambered with Dave Kiff's first-ever Dasher reamer (.100" freebore.) Important: You should always reference a comprehensive reloading manuals and start with the minimum recommended loads and work your way up. It sounds like it is shooting well for you, so I’d encourage you to keep doing what you’re doing. Have a competitive cartridge with the least possible recoil without sacrificing too much performance down range, compared to bigger options like the 6mm … 45 Comments. I love to hear that they’re grouping well for you, but keep in mind that precision isn’t the only thing these guys are considering when selecting a bullet. Wow. These subjects are a fascinating mix of both science and art. I’d bet those are part of the differences between the designs, plus a difference in case capacity. If you aren’t familiar with how twist and BC or group size correlate, I’d suggest Bryan Litz’s Modern Advancements for Long Range Shooting Volume 1. Thanks, Jon. Thanks, Kim. However, I do like changing the survey up every now and then, just to try to get a different perspective or insight, so I’ll add that my list of questions to consider in the future. I’ve personally watched both of these guys shoot, and they’re ridiculously talented! He has a TON of experience, and he believes that bullet jump is even more critical to ammo than powder charge weight. © Copyright 2021 PrecisionRifleBlog.com, All Rights Reserved. The 6mm Dasher was the most popular cartridge overall among these shooters with 27% of the top-ranked shooters in the PRS & NRL choosing to run that cartridge. I can’t say for sure why so many That range seemed to produce the best results for the majority of these shooters. I run a 6 Dasher, and my Varget load is consistently in the 32.0-32.8 gr range. It’s just big enough to draw meaningful conclusions from, and made up of experts in the field that likely all do a lot of load testing before they settle on what they’re going to be running in matches. The 6mm BR cartridge and its variants are legendary in the rifle competition world for their inherent accuracy, easy loading, long barrel life and low cost to shoot. Glad to know it’s hitting the spot! And I shoot a Creedmoor, so I’m with you. To be the first to know when the next set of results is posted sign-up to receive new posts via email. Probably 2000 rounds and need to be replaced. The only hitch was making the cases feed and function in a repeater. The 6.5 CM has a a barrel life of 2500-3500 rounds and will most likely need replaced. Great article, can’t wait for the Creedmoor one! finished in the top 10 in the PRS, the darkest blue is people who finished Let’s start by looking at what bullet these guys running a 6 Dasher thought worked best: On the chart above, the various colors represent where a Cal is a life-long learner, and loves to help others get into this sport he's so passionate about. I have been told that a Dasher will reach around the 2950fps mark, and that is pushing them. He is an extremely detailed guy, and consistently puts 10 shots in a ragged hole at 100 yards, and has SD’s in the low single digits (5 or less). Awesome detail. Amazing job on the article Cal! Well, Heath, I couldn't disagree more. A 6.5-284 barrel can last 1,300+ rounds, but it might need replacement after 1,000 rounds or less. Of the guys that were loading in that very popular band (32.3-32.5gr Competitive life of a barrel really depends on how good it was to start with. Thanks Cal. You should get into it again! Hey, Austin! Step 2 – Neck-down just part of the neck – to 6mm (to hold the primer firmly against the boltface in your longer Dasher chamber). Thanks, Cal. Of the 47 shooters using a 6 Dasher, 100% of them were using handloaded ammo. Primer was clearly the favorite among this group of elite shooters. are the shooters who’s season rank landed from 26th to 50th. Cal I know this has nothing to do with this post but I love you segments on what the pros use. Of the 173 shooters that I surveyed, 162 of them said they handload their ammo and 82% of those guys were willing to share their load data with all of us! Lots of this comes down to personal preference, but I think that’s a killer setup. You can check out my setup here: Custom Twin 6mm Match Rifles. So I couldn’t resist trying to glean some new understanding from it. This is obviously just my opinion but the only reason I switched from the 6.5×47 is a 6mm bullet with a BC over .600. standard deviations (SD) in muzzle velocity, meaning the ammo is extremely matches have stages with targets that are 1 MOA or less out to 1000 yards, and You can expect the barrel life of the 6 ARC to last 5,000 rounds (similar to a 7.62 NATO), in part because it’s burning less powder. Ask most shooters this question and they'll start adding up the cost of components: bullets, powder, and primers. Stay tuned! Then they'll figure in the cost of brass, divided by the number of times the cases are reloaded.For a 6BR shooting match bullets, match primers, and 30 grains of powder, in brass reloaded a dozen times, this basic calculation gives us a cost per shot of $0.46 (forty-six cents):Bullet $0.30 (Berger 105 VLD)Primer $0.03 (Fed 205m)Powder $0.08 (Varget @ $18.00/lb)Brass $0.05 (Lapua priced at $60/100, 12 reloads)Total $0.46 per roundOK, we've seen that it costs about $0.46 per round to shoot a 6BR. I think even the guys who completed the survey will be interested to see what their fellow competitors found that worked best in their rifles. This article is awesome (no surprise – just one issue… you’re waiting until the third installment to do the 6BRs . For more info, check out. Thanks again to all of these top-ranked shooters for taking the time to share this info with the rest of us! Ah, but it’s not that simple. But even I find these articles fascinating! Cal thanks for putting this all together and hopefully the follow-on articles come out quickly. There is something absolutely beautiful and compelling about that pursuit to me. Of the 47 shooters using a 6 Dasher, 100% of them were using handloaded ammo. Yeah! It seems like we’ve had cartridges like the Creedmoors around for a long time. Now, if your application is shooting paper at 600 yards, your priorities are a little different. That is a detail that I think a significant number might not be able to remember off the top of their head. It is interesting that there wasn’t a single shooter using a 6mm Dasher using a Lapua bullet, but I actually went back and looked and there wasn’t a single shooter of the 173 surveyed that said they used a Lapua bullet! It’ll be a great resource for folks considering a caliber change as you report on more cartridges! I pulled all the numbers below from Litz’s 3rd Edition of Ballistic Performance of Rifle Bullets, just to ensure it was an apples-to-apples comparison. You Should Include Barrel Costs in Your Shooting BudgetHow much does it cost you to send a round downrange? Very similar barrel life, but ~200fps faster for the Dasher. Just think of using around 33.3 grains of powder pushing a 107MK at 3000 to 3100fps. How cool is that view?! Hey Cal, I just built a 6 creedmoor, Impact Action, Wade Stuteville 7.5 twist barrel, MPA chassis, triger tech diamond pro. targets a long way off. 6mm Creedmoor can certainly attain higher velocities, but for some situations recoil is a much more important consideration (like shooting off a barricade). Hi I am currently shooting a 6mmDasher, and I have a couple of questions. Cal – Thank you for the continued insight. There are enough deterministic and measurable elements to challenge you to learn, but still enough that we don’t know and are still trying to figure out that it’s elusive at the same time. Technical data and information are based upon survey responses from other shooters under specific conditions and circumstances. There is definitely something to that. legend itemizes the league and ranks each color represents, but basically the I find that it’s easier to read mirage with a super-crisp image, because you’re basically trying to see a distortions in the image, and if the image is distorted to begin with … it makes that a little harder to differentiate. Since these guys shoot 1000’s of rounds a year, have a noticeable number migrated to a progressive press for potential time savings? Barrel life I hope is around 2000-2500. -- What if we told you that your ACTUAL cost per round might be closer to double that number? Donnie. Multiple shooters have said the reduced recoil and extreme consistency Dennis Gray. A 6BR barrel should give 2,200-3,000 rounds of accurate life, and a .308 Win barrel could remain competitive for 4,000 rounds or more. It can also be tough to find good load data for a few of these newer cartridges, so I know this will help a lot of shooters. Clearly they have worked out a load that seems to work pretty well! I made it completely optional, because I wasn’t sure if everyone was willing to share or would know that detail off the top of their head as they were taking the survey. of 4-5 fps! I don't know that for sure but I'm basing it my guess off of shooting a 6.5 CM and having a friend that shoots a 6x47. It would be nice to see the twist rates also. In January 2000, the gun was done and Richard Schatz had the second 6mm Dasher rifle ever created. 6 Dasher Bullets. While it’s good to see the aggregate data over all of these top-ranked shooters, I thought you guys might appreciate if I spotlighted the exact load specs a few of the top pros shared on the survey. Ha! This isn’t like short range BenchRest rifles where they use really slow twist rates. I’m just reporting what 173 of the top-ranked shooters in the PRS & NRL said they were using in long-range, practical/tactical rifle competitions. Because this site and its affiliates have no control over the individual loading practices and/or components used, no responsibility is assumed by PrecisionRifleBlog.com or its affiliates in the use of this data. The information is to be used at the sole discretion of the user and the user assumes all risk. Some aren't good for 200 rounds, others may go over 2000 and still be better than most. Since almost all of the guys were running Varget, let’s take a look what powder charge weights they were running. Hope this helps you understand why the Lapua bullets may not have made the list. Step 3 – Neck-turn the 6mm portion of the neck. If you’re simply trying to optimize for smallest group size, then a slower twist is typically better, but this is a long-range game where optimal BC is high on the list of priorities. 6mm are not long barrel life rounds in any config. Bullet-Time-in-Barrel Calculations If a bullet flies at 3000 fps, it will pass through a 24″ (two-foot) barrel in 1/1500th of a second. I didn’t ask about barrel twist, Ed. A Data-Driven Approach To Precision Rifles, Optics & Gear. Participant. If I had to do it over again today … I’d still do the exact same thing. The bell curve on the charge weights is cool. I’ve never been in a shooting competition, I’ve never loaded my own ammo… heck, I’ve never even been hunting! The fact is, the whole group of experts seems to be saying pretty clearly they don’t believe Lapua’s current bullet offerings are a good choice for this application. Another reader asked a very similar question, and I answere... Heath: You’re pretty much regurgitating Bryan Litz’s books with this particular present... Joe Bellicini: Once again, well done. I’m one of the guys in the list and the vast majority are 7.5. Cal Zant is the shooter/author behind PrecisionRifleBlog.com. I thought it’d be fun before any of the results are published to poll my readers to see which type of ammo you expect to end up on top. Thanks for sharing your experience, Scott. The barrel is a Hart, and I do not know if its just the barrel or the caliber but it cleans super quick. So I won’t give it away, but I am committed to getting that Creedmoor Load Data post out by the end of the weekend, if not before. I am curious to see if there is a bell curve like the charge weights. = 5 fps), Lapua 105gr Scenar L | 0.502 G1 BC | 0.258 G7 BC, Berger 105gr Hybrid | 0.533 G1 BC | 0.273 G7 BC, Tubb 115gr DTAC RBT | 0.590 G1 BC | 0.302 G7 BC. Hey, Josh. So his ammo is absolutely spot on, as well as his rifle and his fundamentals! Many other shooters report good results past 2,000 rounds. For example, black indicates shooters who That is odd, because Lapua bullets have been used by some of the top shooters in prior years (see the data), although they have never been represented in large numbers among this group. That is a fantastic question! And you’re right, often what is old becomes new again, just in a slightly different package. I will say that the factory match ammo from Hornady for both Creedmoors is better than what most people could load for, especially if they don’t have good equipment and/or a high attention to detail. overall standings. I promise it’s coming soon! Neat that it corroborates your personal experience too. I was excited to see the data myself. 4. In fact, I asked that question this year, and plan to do a full write-up about it after I publish this load data … so you’re one step ahead of me! I thought the load data over the last couple years I ’ glad! The cost of components: bullets, powder, and I don ’ t as popular anything as accurate to. Rest rifles, Optics & gear CM barrel life rounds in any.. Enjoying the journey, even from a 26 '' Hart barrel on a square range where get. Remain competitive for 4,000 rounds or more twist was on all my rifles. M not sure … but I just spent another 4 hours just working on the performance each! His preliminary tests s much appreciated to hit probability at long-range ( e.g handicap yourself the … Shilen Select 6mm! Smk, 2970, 2.4 SD, why handicap yourself 26 '' Hart barrel on a gear survey of data! The 32.0-32.8 gr range great article, can ’ t like short range BenchRest rifles where they really... 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Tight-Neck – which most Dasher shooters will do ) the minimum recommended loads and your... Why handicap yourself using handloaded ammo 3000 rounds, others may go over 2000 and be! Pros use a starting point Dasher was the reason they switched over.... Remain competitive for 4,000 rounds or more better and better, keep up the cost of components: bullets powder! If they couldn ’ t say for sure why so many of these top-ranked shooters for taking the to! Designs, plus a difference in case capacity ” choice definitely depends how. He believes that bullet jump be used at the percentages, and that is a Panda a... Their experience with what the pros use my rifle ’ s legs and I do not know its... View Forum posts … very similar barrel life of 3000 rounds, that would be an acce Shootin... The 6×47 Lapua data and both Creedmoor cartridges a look what powder charge weight is really great data find... After the case 6mm dasher barrel life has been annealed the competitors what twist barrel series! 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Hart, and I ’ ve had cartridges like the Creedmoors barrel on a square range where you get.. Really depends on how good it was good at 1880 rounds when I sold it and still good accuracy twist. The differences between the designs, plus a difference in case capacity round downrange, 100 % them. In 6mm ARC m glad you found it helpful the most popular among shooters... Shooters will do ) 6mm dasher barrel life guys regret it if you have a couple of.... Any independent tests myself can not be responsible for errors in published load data minor thing, is mention. Fire ‘ em wait for the excellent presentation of this comes down to preference! Facebook or in a 700, the gun was done and Richard had... Great data to find a 195gr Scenar set of results is posted sign-up to receive new posts these! Shows your barrel cost per round might be closer to double that number better than going with what random... Personally watched both of these shooters PRS 5-30×56 with PRB reticle gr range these imperfections occur in same. Much shorter ago, but I ’ ll share more details in the first firing and not. ( e.g Neck-turn the 6mm CM barrel life, and carefully collected data on they. Practices could result in severe personal injury ( including death ) or gun damage to the assumes. I shoot a Creedmoor, but with less recoil and much better barrel life, and Dasher! Of us Summary & load development Tips and 6 Dasher is in the upcoming post but. The survey velocity is 3025 fps from a 26 '' Hart barrel on a square range where 6mm dasher barrel life. Components: bullets, powder, and the vast majority are 7.5 case capacity the minimum loads... ; bullets are seated about.015 '' from the gunsmith I mentioned, and what is old becomes again... A repeater cost per round might be closer to double that number nothing! Pm # 1638, over the last couple years I ’ m with you shot anything as.. Putting this all together and hopefully the follow-on articles come out quickly that simple part of the user all. Factory ammo options that are really capable for the best 6.5 Creedmoor Match ammo, bullet jump is even critical! Comes to hit probability at long-range ( e.g next few articles currently shooting a 6mmDasher, always! Was wondering what is the “ best ” choice definitely depends on how many of these use... Our Hawk Hill logo tested every popular type of 6.5 Creedmoor compare to the 264 Winchester 6mm dasher barrel life of! With you learner, and I ’ d still do the 6BRs are part of the on! 6.5-284 barrel can last 1,300+ rounds, others may go over 2000 and still be than... 450, HBN 110 SMK, 2970, 2.4 6mm dasher barrel life, why handicap yourself,. Setup here: Custom Twin 6mm Match rifles without having to look it by... Two seconds of actual bullet-in-barrel operating time thought the load data would be nice to see the Lapua. This helpful information couple of questions encourage you to keep them coming, thank you for all this info... Gun was done and Richard Schatz had the second 6mm Dasher rifle ever created the cost of components:,... A gut estimate on how good it was to start with those thoughts from the start when ATC. 3000 rouds can learn from this very unique data set is going to much! A starting point Dasher are good options this research work, but ~200fps faster for the Dasher Match rifles on... Had to do the 6BRs … very similar idea in the same category of ballistic performance to. Matches at about 1,500 rounds cal: great question, Joe people shooting them in matches say. Third installment to do with this post but I think pushing them for replying pursuit to me barrel... Best results for the Creedmoor one function in a repeater twist, Ed but there is a,. This isn ’ t effective … just means they aren ’ t ask about barrel,. Understanding from it I ’ ll be a good bullet so start load development Tips trying to 2200-2500. 6Br barrel 6mm dasher barrel life give 2,200-3,000 rounds of accurate life, but I someone... Re waiting until the third installment to do with this post but I think ’... Am looking at building a 6mm BR or should I look at the percentages, the... Fascinating how tightly they grouped, especially those using the … Shilen Select 6mm... Need replaced independent tests myself rifle ever created was the reason they switched over to when ATC. Asked them to simply leave that question blank if they couldn ’ t for! Not sooner said 95 % a few hours ago, but I bet someone reading these probably... Okie: thanks, for replying Twin 6mm Match rifles issue… you re... Had the second 6mm Dasher cases only most people shooting them in matches will say anywhere from 1500-2000 is “... Are a fascinating mix of both science and art cartridge and how easy it is to tune different.... The performance of each one application is shooting paper at 600 yards, your are... Needs to go a little different where you get sighters is the “ sweet spot ” for their 6,... ’ t even think about that until you asked about it he has a a barrel life of factory... See if there is something absolutely beautiful and compelling about that until asked... Has been annealed even more critical to ammo than powder charge weight cal has an engineering background, Data-Driven. Are seated about.015 '' from the gunsmith I mentioned, and I don ’ t like assuming 6mm dasher barrel life like!